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Did Jesus Christ Die on a Cross or Stake?
Submitted by Teeny on June 25, 2010 - 9:55 am 13 Comments
This has been one of the greatest debate topics of all time (Jehovah’s Witness time I mean). I remember being out on the ministry with my mother and younger sister within the Greek-Cypriot speaking community in London, England. The Greek Orthodox Church made sure its followers always brought up the “Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t Christians because they believe Jesus Christ died on a stake, instead of a cross” line.
To be honest with you, my mother, a pioneer at the time (now serving in the London Bethel), was fantastic at showing all the ‘evidence’ to prove Jehovah’s Witnesses were right in their understanding that Jesus Christ did in fact die on a stake and not a cross like the mainstream Christian religions would have you believe. I, like an African Grey, would parrot every word that came out of my mothers mouth, and on some occasions, would be as convincing with my arguments.
When I was about 13, we were invited round to my mother’s friends’ home for Easter. This was obviously going against Jehovah’s Witness protocol, but mother took us along as her friend had started to study the bible. That wasn’t the only reason mother went against the rules. You see, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t celebrate Easter, let alone a Greek Orthodox Easter, which if the host can help it, comes with as many bells and whistles that you can think of. The main reason for my mothers presence was that her friends cousin, a Greek Orthodox priest, was going to be present, which meant a debateathon was on the cards. As far as I can remember, the husband of my mothers bible studying friend asked the priest along because he thought he could show my mother up. How wrong was he!
Mother took the priest to the cleaners. As it was Easter, the main topic was brought up – did Jesus Christ die on a cross or a stake? Mother was, and still is, a human Wikipede of Jehovah’s Witness literature. She used references from historians to prove that Jesus Christ actually died on a stake and not a cross. That showed the priest. My mothers friend was baptised soon after that debate and her daughter also came to “The Truth” (patent pending).
I will never forget that debate. In fact, I used my mothers tactics on some work mates when I was just 16. I was working at Lombard Bank in Enfield, London at the time.
Try to picture this scenario: I was at work and some of my non-believing colleagues opened up a discussion about Jesus Christ. Finally, the conversation turned to me.
Colleague(s): “You Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe that Jesus died on a cross, do you?”
Devout Jehovah’s Witness: “Jesus died on a stake and even historians agree with us (the Organisation) on that point.”
Colleagues(s): “You’re joking, right? What historians agree with you?
Even more devout Jehovah’s Witness: “Here, let me show you.”
At this point, I pulled out my Reasoning from the Scriptures book and turned to page 89 which discusses the Cross and I showed my colleagues that even historians agree with Jehovah’s Witnesses that Jesus Christ did not die on a cross, but on a stake.
Directions on Proving Jesus Christ Died on a Stake
Here’s what you need to do if this situation arises with you.
1. Turn to page 89 in your Reasoning from the Scriptures book. Published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
Page 89 in the Reasoning from the Scriptures - Click to Enlarge
To help you out, here is what the Reasoning from the Scriptures book has to say about the Cross (page 89).
I’ve highlighted the main interesting points for you in yellow.
The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau-ros'], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground….Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole” – Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.
So there you go. Even the Imperial Bible Dictionary (IBD) shows us the facts. Therefore, in the future, if anyone tries to tell you that the Organisation is just brainwashing us, tell them about the above quote, or even better yet, show them the quote directly from the Imperial Bible Dictionary yourself!
Imperial Bible Dictionary excerpt - Click to Enlarge
The highlighted sections that are in yellow, are the comments that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society (WTS) have used and added in the Reasoning from the Scriptures book in relation to the Cross (page 89).
Oh, but wait! It looks as though there’s been some sort of mistake. Read the sections that are highlighted in purple (I couldn’t find a scarlet-coloured highlighter). Let’s take a closer look at this passage.
WTS: The Greek word for cross, σταυρός, properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling a piece of ground.
IBD: But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek-speaking countries.
WTS: Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole,
IBD: and this always remained the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment, a transverse piece of wood was commonly added: not however, always, even then.
IBD Con’t: others extending their arms on a patibulum [crucifixion, hanging on a cross cross, widely used symbol].” There can be no doubt, however, that the latter sort was the more common, and that about the period of the gospel age crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood.
Oh dear, what do we have here? It looks as though the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is up to its old tricks of Quote-Mining [The practice of quoting out of context, sometimes referred to as "contextomy" or "quote mining", is a logical fallacy and type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning].
I’m at a loss for words; I really am. You see, I thought this was a righteous and loving Organisation; not one that attempted to change the facts so as to suit its own agenda. I thought this was God’s Organisation? Surely the most supreme being in the universe wouldn’t allow his own Organisation here on earth to lie in their own publications? I mean, this is the god that killed all those men, women, babies, animals and plant life in the great flood, Sodom and Gomorrah and Tyre (and plans to do it all again soon). Surely he could have fixed the Imperial Bible Dictionary so that it showed once and for all that the Jehovah’s Witnesses were right to say that Jesus Christ died on a stake and not a cross?
If you have your Bibles open, take a look at the words of 2 Peter Chapter 2, Verses 1 through to 3. Could the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society be a false prophet?
I don’t know about you, but I will be investigating more quotes that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society has listed in its publications. I promise you that I will post anything I find. If you have found any other lies, please let us know. I am told the Creation book is full of them.
Did Jesus Christ Die on a Cross or Stake?,9 Comments
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Teeny Reply:
May 1st, 2012 at 2:22 pm
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Shane Reply:
July 18th, 2012 at 7:27 am
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ohh my god….that means no more nice apartments no more nice cars no more travel benefits no more Govening Body ..wow
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Andrew Reply:
June 18th, 2012 at 8:14 am
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So what you do not cover in this claim to quote-mine is this. There is no error, it is saying single stake was the origin. So the question you fail in your attack which makes you equally a quote miner of purple highlights, is this, when did the cross-stake begin. It says as the Romans took Greek lands, but that does not clearly prove it, that is vague. Now listen up, I am a witness of my God Jehovah and that is by true definition, not by world definition, nor Organisation definition. Next i will say truly Jesus was conceived on the cross or crossing, and he was born on the cross, and he was presented 40 days later on the cross, he was anointed by 3 Magi on the cross, he was baptized on the cross, and even stated during the crossing, i am the true morning star, before he held Passover on the cross, and died on the cross, and was raised to heaven on the cross the 1st day as well as the cross on the 40th day. You can argue with other churches or anyone what your cross is, but the fact remains the most common cross in all religious existence are dates of crossing in which people presumed certain ones should be king or priest or calimed in heaven or worshipped as their Leader, etc. That is why the cross is worshipped everywhere but so blind to actual value that it refers to being able to see and predict any day and hour, as Shem Melchizidek did, told it to Abram, was called an angel of Jehovah, and was also called JEHOVAH for knowing this and being right, and then Sodom as predicted exploded at sunrise (198bc July 18). How do readers benefit from what i just said… they can all die in one boat pointing at each other, or even killing the Christ bride when Judas pokes you to do so, or they can see that the Christ bride is not at fault for how Judas (or even Peter that night of crossing) keeps stirring up mind-control or demands of obedience to the Christ bride, etc. The legal departments are Judas not the Christ bride. You will kill the Christ (bride) again because of what non-elite non-anointed have done in her name. I do not fear what either side thinks of me, the world, or fake JWs, because i see truth, and it blesses me to see it. Little Christendom is said by the WT to be a whore, as she points out that Big Mother Christendom the whore celebrates Christmas as the birth or death of Nimrod. Google it, it comes up at Xang, and at Gilead, and at Plain Truth. BUT truly it tell you that the Christmas dates Kayak 24, Mesore 24, Thoth 24, December 24 all pinpoint one death, it is the death of Noah not NImrod, and the rising Venus of that date occurs 251 years apart for the death of his son Shem (Shem-Ramis means Shem honored) as 2370bc Gregorian Dec 17 to 1868bc Dec 17 starting from its equal Julian January 6 Venus Epiphany (to January 2). Apply Shem-Ramis as Semiramis to Noah’s death, and you get Nimrod’s death in 251 years and then 502 years to king Ninus who is a 600-year Venus half-cycle from Shem’s death. Remember if you call Nimrod the father of Assyria for building Nineveh, that it is Shem who is their father (father of Asshur). Noah’s Dec 25 Venus Semiramis (G.Dec 8) is Dec 23 for Nimrod (G.Dec 8) two days before the Christmas Noah, and for NInus another 4 days as Dec 19 =G.Dec 8) . THUS XMAS IS A NOAH AND SHEM HOLIDAY NOT A NIMROD HOLIDAY which means in the heavenly court for or against Jehovah or Satan the seated witness known as Watchtowerdom is advocating Little Christendom lies that Satan himself laughs at is being published. I find this greater disgust, than the United Nations mistake because this mistake has been 100 years, and times 10 isnt going to get man to perfection.
ELIJAH
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The cross rather than JW stake better emulates this statement as Thomas says “NAIL MARKS”(plural) not “NAIL MARK” (singular). WTBTS documents Jesus on the stake with one (1) nail. But the said bible JWs follow shows in this scripture verse that it was more than one nail mark……You should mention this to your mom.
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Teeny Reply:
February 27th, 2013 at 6:18 pm
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