Who was the First Liar in the Bible?

10 Comments

1. 
   roberto January 22, 2012

   God DID NOT lie. … Did Adam and Eve die within a day of eating the forbidden fruit? Adam left the Garden of Eden and lived for many years, fathering children until he reached the ripe old age of 930! (Genesis 5:5). We see clearly that God lied…….
   They died spiritually at the moment of disobeying God. This is why Jesus said You Must BE Born again. We are all now born spiritually dead, until we accept christ and are Born again.

2. 
   Ben January 23, 2012

   Hi Roberto.

   I see your point, but that isn’t what the bible says. No where does it say in the Genesis account that they died spiritually. God says that in the day they eat of the fruit they will positively die. Well, they positively didn’t, did they? The only way to get around this is to have to jump through hoops and add little bits like you are doing, saying that it was ‘symbolic’ or ‘spiritual’ death.

   The other bit about accepting Jesus… the whole idea is immoral. Hear me out a second – if I commit a crime, would it be fair for you to receive the sentence? No, of course not! Adam sinned, and all of us have to suffer for it? That isn’t loving. If you liked me, loved me, you might choose to serve my time or die in my place, but you could never take away my responsibility for what I did, just as it isn’t Jesus place to forgive us all on God’s behalf for what Adam did, right? So we are born in sin, commanded to be perfect… it just isn’t fair and no loving God would have things in such a way.

   Also, if Jesus paid the ransom, why haven’t we been freed from sin yet? It’s like paying a kidnapper money and then he doesn’t release the captive. He just lets you make a phone call instead whenever you want to talk to your loved one.

   Regards,

   Ben

3. 
   Phillip Elliott February 1, 2012

   Jehovah Witnesses believe that when you’re dead, you’re dead. Nothing remains…no spirit ..no soul…nothing. They believe that “good” folks will be recreated from nothing later on to enjoy life in their “new kingdom” So, just like you, JWs can only focus on physical death not spiritual death. They are wrong of course. God made us a trinity…body, soul, and spirit. Later in scripture we are told: The soul that sinneth shall die…. God sees the eternal consequences of sin not just the physical ones. From God’s perspective Adam’s “offense’ made him dead to Him…instantly! It took the sacrifice of God Himself, in Christ, to bring Adam and the rest of us back into a living relationship with God.

   God doesn’t lie, but men can stubbornly resist and hold to a point of view that leave them dead without the Hope that God offers.

4. 
   Ben February 1, 2012

   I was enjoying your comment, Phillip, right up to the time you started preaching. I still don’t understand why people like you can have a go at other religions and call them wrong but then when it comes to your own religion, you can’t see the same points. God did lie – it’s in the bible. Read the article. It’s clear. We didn’t twist it or make it up. You can read it yourself. Like we’ve said before, to make God out not to have lied, you have to add symbolism and say things like “he was dead to God” or “he died spiritually,” though the bible doesn’t say that at all.

   Regards,

   Ben

5. 
   Phillip Elliott February 2, 2012

   Teeny, In your essay I think I can assume you are not a Jehovah Witness and because you are so adiment in you claim that God is a liar it appears that you could not be a member of any religious group whether it be main stream or cultic sect. What’s left is a man who would rather dismiss God as a liar and His plan of salvation…foolish.
   Ben, you apparently want to reject the free gift of Life God offers you want to pay for your own crimes.
   That is your decision to make and many others make the same one ” Wide is the road” crowded with people who feel just like you. All God requires is that “Whoseoever calleth upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” No hoops, just faith. But ‘many will stubbornly resist and thus be lost by their own fault”

   Matthew 18:22-23 describes your perspectively perfectly:(22) For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; (23) but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, …Does that sound like you?

   As for being a liar:
   Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: has he said, and shall he not do it? or has he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Truth is the “day” could very well mean the 24 hour day that Adam suffered spiritual death or it could very well mean the 1000 year= day in 2 peter 3:8

   Your narrow legalistic focus of the Genesis verse is wrong…God does not lie any more than saying He lied when he tells us of dragons in Revelation, Seed = Gods word in John or 4 horseman riding the earth…These are all symbolic too…Is God lying here too?

   Teeny and Ben..Dismissing God does not make Him go away. Rejecting His plan for Life doesn’t change it
   If you are right it won’t make any difference…If I am right it makes all the difference in the world.

   best regards to you too,
   Phil

6. 
   Phillip Elliott February 2, 2012

   Here is one last verse to consider…Col 3:18

   And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

   The people Paul is writing to are not “dead” Is he lying to us too?

7. 
   Ben February 2, 2012

   Hi Phillip,

   Technically, I don’t believe in god, so I am wrong to dismiss him as a liar. I have dismissed God altogether. If he doesn’t exist, he can’t lie.

   I will believe absolutely anything, no matter how hard it is to accept, if someone presents conclusive evidence. There is no evidence for the existence of god. Then, even if god existed, I wouldn’t want to worship such a cruel, capricious and vile being anyway. As for paying for my sins, I had no choice in the matter as I was born in sin! Some loving arrangement. That someone else can take responsibility for crimes I commit and had no choice in committing? Don’t you see how immoral scapegoating is?

   Faith isn’t a virtue. Faith is believing anything you want despite evidence that proves you wrong. Not only is this stupid, but it is also dangerous. I could believe absolutely ANYTHING, like there is an invisible pink flying unicorn that watches over me. You can’t prove me wrong, and by my saying I have faith it doesn’t prove anything. Just like a Hindu saying to you they have faith wouldn’t go an inch towards you accepting their beliefs.

   You said, “If you are right it won’t make any difference … If I am right it makes all the difference in the world.” What a cowards way out, worshiping god just to save your own ass in case its true! And of course it makes a difference. Religion is an evil blight on this planet that needs to be eradicated. That’s why people like us speak up against it! We can’t just let religionists get on with it because too many people get hurt!

   We’ve heard all the religious arguments before. Until you can provide evidence to back up your claims, they all mean nothing.

   Ben

8. 
   Jekyl March 21, 2012

   Wel d bible warns of dos wit inspired talks bt wt basis frm d devil.sayin Jehovah is a liar automatically fulfils dis bible prophesy of inspired false teachins. Im really sory u jus hv to fulfil such a condemnation n u

9. 
   Ben March 23, 2012

   Jekyl, you say we lie and inspire false teaching – well, prove it. The JWB promise stands – provide evidence that we have lied about anything on this blog and we will retract it. To date, no Jehovah’s Witness has taken us up on the offer, which kind of tells the story all by itself.

   Regards,

   Ben

10. 
    Teeny March 23, 2012

    Hi Jekyl,

    Did you know that the Dictionary, and not the Bible, is the best-selling book? I advise you buy one.

    Cheers,
    Teeny